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Greek Tax regulations

Created a page on the new greek tax regulations. Please check the numbers, moreover the text uses sofar no official sources, if you know about official sources please let me know. The current numbers are quite unbelievable.

The envisaged german income taxes for 2013 (to be cast into a law on Feb1) (i.e. Germans currently don't know for sure what their income taxes will be for this year) are at randform

Comments

  • 1.

    The following data is sofar not justified by official sources, hence it can be erranous

    Could you describe the Idea behind the page too? My guess is that you want to convey the idea that the new greek tax regulations are too harsh? If I'm wrong, it would be good that you clarify that page.

    I'm also a bit worried to talk too much of economics on Azimuth, it's nice that we can discuss among each other because we care about the environment, but I'm not sure if there's such a consensus among us whether high taxes are good or bad. (Perhaps there's a consensus it should be studied scientifically ;) )

    This remark is meant to be independent from the Greek situation: but if a state spends more than it collects it is not really a desirable situation. I do believe that money is just a way to redistribute goods between people and should not be taken as the measure of everything, but if the state always makes deficits, that only works as long as people still believe that the money is worth something. As soon as they don't believe this anymore, I guess there'll be some inflation... And one day someone will realize that the Dollar, Euro,... are not worth as much as we currently think it is (apparently China is collecting gold in anticipation of that moment).

    Comment Source:> The following data is sofar not justified by official sources, hence it can be erranous Could you describe the Idea behind the page too? My guess is that you want to convey the idea that the new greek tax regulations are too harsh? If I'm wrong, it would be good that you clarify that page. I'm also a bit worried to talk too much of economics on Azimuth, it's nice that we can discuss among each other because we care about the environment, but I'm not sure if there's such a consensus among us whether high taxes are good or bad. (Perhaps there's a consensus it should be studied scientifically ;) ) This remark is meant to be independent from the Greek situation: but if a state spends more than it collects it is not really a desirable situation. I do believe that money is just a way to redistribute goods between people and should not be taken as the measure of everything, but if the state always makes deficits, that only works as long as people still believe that the money is worth something. As soon as they don't believe this anymore, I guess there'll be some inflation... And one day someone will realize that the Dollar, Euro,... are not worth as much as we currently think it is (apparently China is collecting gold in anticipation of that moment).
  • 2.

    I was linking to that page from the draft about the game : Utopia ( I may restructure this a bit and put it directly it under MMOGEP)

    I think that economical and political desicions are VERY important in the discussion of climate change and environment. I am currently still trying to bring this together in a more comprehensive way in that article which is partly at the Azimuth page MMOGEP and the links in it. Moreover in the article I try to collect arguments that it may be useful to use multiplayer games for doing the scientific studies. As you say a lot in politics and economy is based on some "beliefs" and other psychological factors, so I think e.g. alone agent based social modelling may be not enough. I see this article also as a possible base or guide for simpler boiled down follow-up awareness/educational material, like brochures, videos etc.

    Do you really want to hear my personal opinion to these taxes? Frankly at the moment I still can't believe that the taxes are as described here. I mean this newspaper, which is the main source may have misunderstood something. (the newspaper didn't look at a first glance (just by the overall style) as being a very intellectually minded newspaper, which on the other hand doesn't need to mean that they are wrong, but they could sometimes be eventually a bit more sloppy with details). If these taxes are as they are stated in the description then I think these tax regulations are very bad and I will argue about that if I know for sure that these are the correct numbers. And I think there are very simple to understand aruments why they are bad.

    The steps in the german social insurance (here for health care) for freelancers ARE real: http://www.randform.org/blog/?p=4845 and in fact they affect me personally quite directly.

    A complete breakdown of the greek economy would however affect ushere too.

    Comment Source:I was linking to that page from the draft about the game : <a href="http://www.azimuthproject.org/azimuth/show/Utopia">Utopia</a> ( I may restructure this a bit and put it directly it under <a href="http://www.azimuthproject.org/azimuth/show/Experiments+in+massive+multiplayer+online+games+for+economic+and+political+change">MMOGEP</a>) I think that economical and political desicions are VERY important in the discussion of climate change and environment. I am currently still trying to bring this together in a more comprehensive way in that article which is partly at the Azimuth page <a href="http://www.azimuthproject.org/azimuth/show/Experiments+in+massive+multiplayer+online+games+for+economic+and+political+change">MMOGEP</a> and the links in it. Moreover in the article I try to collect arguments that it may be useful to use multiplayer games for doing the scientific studies. As you say a lot in politics and economy is based on some "beliefs" and other psychological factors, so I think e.g. alone agent based social modelling may be not enough. I see this article also as a possible base or guide for simpler boiled down follow-up awareness/educational material, like brochures, videos etc. Do you really want to hear my personal opinion to these taxes? Frankly at the moment I still can't believe that the taxes are as described here. I mean this newspaper, which is the main source may have misunderstood something. (the newspaper didn't look at a first glance (just by the overall style) as being a very intellectually minded newspaper, which on the other hand doesn't need to mean that they are wrong, but they could sometimes be eventually a bit more sloppy with details). If these taxes are as they are stated in the description then I think these tax regulations are very bad and I will argue about that if I know for sure that these are the correct numbers. And I think there are very simple to understand aruments why they are bad. The steps in the german social insurance (here for health care) for freelancers ARE real: http://www.randform.org/blog/?p=4845 and in fact they affect me personally quite directly. A complete breakdown of the greek economy would however affect ushere too.
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