Comments

  • 1.

    On the blog, nad has been talking about the area of land required to produce enough food. I have been collecting some info about this, as it applies to the UK. I found the answers surprising.

    My vague idea was that if you became vegan, protein would be a quite a problem. I thought you would end up eating a lot of legumes (beans, peas, lentils) because other vegetables either had too little protein, or a poor balance of amino acids. I also thought that the high-protein legumes required a warmer climate than the UK, so that getting enough protein in the UK might be tricky.

    I am using nutrition data from http://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods. All figure are per 100g.

    Potatoes, microwaved, cooked in skin, flesh and skin, without salt 
    Energy  105kcal
    Protein 2.44g
    Fat     0.10g
    

    So first surprise: If you got all your calories from potatoes, you'd get a bit too much protein. The recommended ratio is 2000kcal to 40g protein. Potato protein is high quality

    Oats 
    Energy  389kcal
    Protein 16.89g
    Fat      6.90g
    

    Protein overdose! (and again it is high quality). Need some fat.

    Canola (rapeseed oil)
    Energy  884kcal
    Protein 0.00g
    Fat 100.00g
    

    It was harder to get info for yields. I used:

    100m2 of potatoes yields 0.01*42000/365 = 1.15 kg/day
    150m2 of oats yields     0.015*3500/365 = 0.144 kg/day
    250m2 of rapeseed yields 0.025*1280/365 = 0.087 kg/day
    

    providing

    Energy  11.5*105 + 1.44*389 + 0.87*884 = 2540kcal/day
    Protein 11.5*2.44 + 1.44*16.89 + 0.87*0 = 52g/day
    Fat     11.5*0.10 + 1.44*6.90 + 0.87*100 = 98g/day
    

    from 500m2.

    These are a little above the recommended daily allowances. Obviously some vitamins and minerals are missing, but I'm surprised that porridge and chips is such a good basis!

    It turns out fat is the biggest problem, which is not the impression you get from a supermarket.

    Another surprise was that a UK wholefood catalogue which has a dozen kinds of beans most of which are hard to grow in the UK does not list broad beans (fava beans) which grow well in the UK.

    Comment Source:On the blog, nad has been [talking](http://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/2014/04/16/what-does-the-new-ipcc-report-say-about-climate-change-part-6/#comment-47326) about the area of land required to produce enough food. I have been collecting some info about this, as it applies to the UK. I found the answers surprising. My vague idea was that if you became vegan, protein would be a quite a problem. I thought you would end up eating a lot of legumes (beans, peas, lentils) because other vegetables either had too little protein, or a poor balance of amino acids. I also thought that the high-protein legumes required a warmer climate than the UK, so that getting enough protein in the UK might be tricky. I am using nutrition data from [http://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods](http://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods). All figure are per 100g. ~~~~ Potatoes, microwaved, cooked in skin, flesh and skin, without salt Energy 105kcal Protein 2.44g Fat 0.10g ~~~~ So first surprise: If you got all your calories from potatoes, you'd get a bit too much protein. The recommended ratio is 2000kcal to 40g protein. Potato protein is [high quality](http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/vegetables-and-vegetable-products/2771/2) ~~~~ Oats Energy 389kcal Protein 16.89g Fat 6.90g ~~~~ Protein overdose! (and again it is high quality). Need some fat. ~~~~ Canola (rapeseed oil) Energy 884kcal Protein 0.00g Fat 100.00g ~~~~ It was harder to get info for yields. I used: * Potatoes 42t/ha, figure from [ukagriculture](http://www.ukagriculture.com/crops/potatoes_uk.cfm) * Oats 3.5t/ha, figure from Wikipedia. * Rapeseed oil 1.28t/ha, figure from [Wikipedia.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapeseed) which says "Every ton of rapeseed yields about 400 kg of oil." and [ukagriculture](http://www.ukagriculture.com/crops/oil_seed_rape.cfm) which says UK yield is about 3.2t/ha. (Another estimate is rapeseed oil 1200lt/ha from [http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html](http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html).) ~~~~ 100m2 of potatoes yields 0.01*42000/365 = 1.15 kg/day 150m2 of oats yields 0.015*3500/365 = 0.144 kg/day 250m2 of rapeseed yields 0.025*1280/365 = 0.087 kg/day ~~~~ providing ~~~~ Energy 11.5*105 + 1.44*389 + 0.87*884 = 2540kcal/day Protein 11.5*2.44 + 1.44*16.89 + 0.87*0 = 52g/day Fat 11.5*0.10 + 1.44*6.90 + 0.87*100 = 98g/day ~~~~ from 500m2. These are a little above the recommended daily allowances. Obviously some vitamins and minerals are missing, but I'm surprised that porridge and chips is such a good basis! It turns out fat is the biggest problem, which is not the impression you get from a supermarket. Another surprise was that a UK wholefood catalogue which has a dozen kinds of beans most of which are hard to grow in the UK does not list broad beans (fava beans) which grow well in the UK.
  • 2.
    nad
    edited June 2014

    Graham, incidentally I had just edited the project page and asked about the protein.... I am not sure though wether all proteins are the same. That is I can only speak for myself, that is I feel differently energized with different protein sources. I feel more energized after eating fish or organic chicken (I don't eat much meat, so I really feel a difference) than after eating any vegetable. From the veggies I find soybeans (in form of Tofu) mostly energising, I don't feel much energized after eating potatoes, but rather tired (even if I eat the potatoes usually with skin...we had learned in school (bavarian cooking class in an all girls school) that most of the minerals,vitamins etc. of a potato are in the skin).

    Comment Source:Graham, incidentally I had just edited the project page and asked about the protein.... I am not sure though wether all proteins are the same. That is I can only speak for myself, that is I feel differently energized with different protein sources. I feel more energized after eating fish or organic chicken (I don't eat much meat, so I really feel a difference) than after eating any vegetable. From the veggies I find soybeans (in form of Tofu) mostly energising, I don't feel much energized after eating potatoes, but rather tired (even if I eat the potatoes usually with skin...we had learned in school (bavarian cooking class in an all girls school) that most of the minerals,vitamins etc. of a potato are in the skin).
  • 3.

    I guess this is part of the explanation of your experience - the carbohydrates you get with veggie protein making you sleepy, cancelling any energised feeling.

    Comment Source:I guess [this](http://www.livestrong.com/article/530662-does-eating-carbs-make-you-sleepy/) is part of the explanation of your experience - the carbohydrates you get with veggie protein making you sleepy, cancelling any energised feeling.
  • 4.

    I guess this is part of the explanation of your experience - the carbohydrates you get with veggie protein making you sleepy, cancelling any energised feeling.

    yes probably, but I guess the proteins in the potato come together with the carbs.

    Comment Source:>I guess this is part of the explanation of your experience - the carbohydrates you get with veggie protein making you sleepy, cancelling any energised feeling. yes probably, but I guess the proteins in the potato come together with the carbs.
  • 5.
    edited June 2014

    Graham - I hope you put this data on the wiki! You're right - it's quite surprising.

    Comment Source:Graham - I hope you put this data on the wiki! You're right - it's quite surprising.
  • 6.

    I've added the data to the wiki, and organised the page a bit.

    Comment Source:I've added the data to the wiki, and organised the page a bit.
  • 7.

    These are a little above the recommended daily allowances. Obviously some vitamins and minerals are missing, but I’m surprised that porridge and chips is such a good basis!

    I bet the vitamins and minerals are not so easy to get.

    Comment Source:>These are a little above the recommended daily allowances. Obviously some vitamins and minerals are missing, but I’m surprised that porridge and chips is such a good basis! I bet the vitamins and minerals are not so easy to get.
  • 8.

    When a kind of agricultural revolution started among the Ancient Pueblo Peoples in the American southwest, and people started eating lots of corn, populations skyrocketed but skeletons show damage from mineral deficiencies.

    Comment Source:When a kind of agricultural revolution started among the Ancient Pueblo Peoples in the American southwest, and people started eating lots of corn, populations skyrocketed but skeletons show damage from mineral deficiencies.
  • 9.

    Graham wrote:

    It turns out fat is the biggest problem, which is not the impression you get from a supermarket.

    Sorry I haven't got time to find the refs but a recent BBC One Horizon demonstrated tests showing that fat on its own or carbs on their own are not a problem.

    The killer foods are doughnuts and deep-pan pizza with the endorphin-producing 50/50 fat/sugar mix.

    Comment Source:Graham wrote: > It turns out fat is the biggest problem, which is not the impression you get from a supermarket. Sorry I haven't got time to find the refs but a recent BBC One Horizon demonstrated tests showing that fat on its own or carbs on their own are not a problem. The killer foods are doughnuts and deep-pan pizza with the endorphin-producing 50/50 fat/sugar mix.
  • 10.

    The killer foods are doughnuts and deep-pan pizza with the endorphin-producing 50/50 fat/sugar mix.

    I'm just going into the garden to eat some ice-cream.

    Comment Source:> The killer foods are doughnuts and deep-pan pizza with the endorphin-producing 50/50 fat/sugar mix. I'm just going into the garden to eat some ice-cream.
  • 11.

    +1

    Comment Source:+1
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