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# Azimuth Code Project 2?

edited February 2020

The Azimuth Code Project has been in hibernation for quite some time now.

The work done in the past had centered around developing 'toy' climate models for purposes of understanding and intellectual experiment. For example, a javascript-based interactive program for a model of stochastic resonance, which could have application to understanding glaciation cycles.

Times have changed, and now the current focus revolves around applied category theory. But, interestingly, as we are seeing through the buzz of activity around the MIT 2020 programming with categories course, one of the really exciting, tangible and pragmatic applications of category theory is to realm of functional programming.

So it occurs to me that there may be a potential for the code project to awaken, in a new form. I am starting this discussion as a placeholder for people share any ideas they might have on the topic.

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edited February 2020

This is not to say, however, that the "classic Azimuth" applications to the understanding of the environment couldn't also be continued in an awakened code project.   I believe those ideas are still good, valid and important.   It's just that we have a new crowd of people with a different focus now, so there may not enough active interest now for a revival there.

Comment Source:This is not to say, however, that the "classic Azimuth" applications to the understanding of the environment couldn't also be continued in an awakened code project.   I believe those ideas are still good, valid and important.   It's just that we have a new crowd of people with a different focus now, so there may not enough active interest now for a revival there. 
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As far as climate codes go, Prof Ray Pierrehumbert has some excellent codes related to his book Principles of Planetary Climate. These are in Python 3:

https://geosci.uchicago.edu/~rtp1/PrinciplesPlanetaryClimate/Python/pythonPortal.html

https://github.com/thomas-haslwanter/planetary_climate (not sure this is "authorized" in the sense it has the sanction and correctness from RTP)

https://assets.cambridge.org/97805218/65562/frontmatter/9780521865562_frontmatter.pdf

https://users.physics.ox.ac.uk/~pierrehumbert/PrinciplesPlanetaryClimate/QuickStart.html

https://users.physics.ox.ac.uk/~pierrehumbert/PrinciplesPlanetaryClimate/ (Latest. Ray is at Oxford now, not University of Chicago.)

Comment Source:As far as climate codes go, Prof Ray Pierrehumbert has some excellent codes related to his book *Principles* *of* *Planetary* *Climate*. These are in Python 3: https://geosci.uchicago.edu/~rtp1/PrinciplesPlanetaryClimate/Python/pythonPortal.html https://github.com/thomas-haslwanter/planetary_climate (not sure this is "authorized" in the sense it has the sanction and correctness from RTP) https://assets.cambridge.org/97805218/65562/frontmatter/9780521865562_frontmatter.pdf https://users.physics.ox.ac.uk/~pierrehumbert/PrinciplesPlanetaryClimate/QuickStart.html https://users.physics.ox.ac.uk/~pierrehumbert/PrinciplesPlanetaryClimate/ (Latest. Ray is at Oxford now, not University of Chicago.) 
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edited February 2020

Thanks Jan!! It would great if there were renewed interest in a climate coding project.

Though I'm not a good candidate for leading it now, as it's far from my areas of expertise, which are computer science and software development.

By the way, John got stretched too thin with all his research at UCR and graduate students, plus the Azimuth blog, so presently he's not at the wheel here. He was clear though that he's no less supportive of the forum and glad that we're all here, just he could only be so many places at once; the best place to engage with him online remains the blog.

Comment Source:Thanks Jan!! It would _great_ if there were renewed interest in a climate coding project. Though I'm not a good candidate for leading it now, as it's far from my areas of expertise, which are computer science and software development. By the way, John got stretched too thin with all his research at UCR and graduate students, plus the Azimuth blog, so presently he's not at the wheel here. He was clear though that he's no less supportive of the forum and glad that _we're_ all here, just he could only be so many places at once; the best place to engage with him online remains the blog. 
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edited February 2020

In what follows, I will share my assessment of the evolution of the code project and what would be needed to jumpstart it in the present.

Comment Source:In what follows, I will share my assessment of the evolution of the code project and what would be needed to jumpstart it in the present.
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edited February 2020

Since we're talking about software development, let's frame the matter in the terms that are applied to the professional practice of software development.

There we find the following roles in the software development process: end users, business analysts, software engineers / architects, tech leads, programmers, and testers. There are also development managers who oversee the whole process.

Now it is often the case that 'software developers' with broad skills may be able handle multiple of these functions, leading a smaller staffing than the above would suggest. But in terms of analyzing the process, those are the functional roles.

Comment Source:Since we're talking about software development, let's frame the matter in the terms that are applied to the professional practice of software development. There we find the following roles in the software development process: end users, business analysts, software engineers / architects, tech leads, programmers, and testers. There are also development managers who oversee the whole process. Now it is often the case that 'software developers' with broad skills may be able handle multiple of these functions, leading a smaller staffing than the above would suggest. But in terms of analyzing the process, those are the functional roles. 
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edited February 2020

The end users are the people who actually need the software for their work. They know what it needs to be able to do. A typical, generic end user, is not able to articulate in precise terms what the functional specification of the system is. They just know it in their gut. They will produce requirements that are generally understandable, but contain many undefined terms and ambiguous phrases.

A business analyst (BA) plays the role of learning these needs from the end user, and translating them into more precise specifications of functional behavior.

However, not being engineers, there generally will remain some "degrees of freedom" in the interpretation of their specifications.

The software engineer / architect has the job of nailing it down, and producing a concrete design for the architecture of the system.

The tech lead then organizes the team of programmers to finally build the thing.

QA testers use the functional specifications written by the BA's as the "law" for evaluating whether the empirical behavior of the software is up to spec.

Comment Source:The end users are the people who actually need the software for their work. They _know_ what it needs to be able to do. A typical, generic end user, is not able to articulate in precise terms what the functional specification of the system is. They just know it in their gut. They will produce requirements that are generally understandable, but contain many undefined terms and ambiguous phrases. A business analyst (BA) plays the role of learning these needs from the end user, and translating them into more precise specifications of functional behavior. However, not being engineers, there generally will remain some "degrees of freedom" in the interpretation of their specifications. The software engineer / architect has the job of nailing it down, and producing a concrete design for the architecture of the system. The tech lead then organizes the team of programmers to finally build the thing. QA testers use the functional specifications written by the BA's as the "law" for evaluating whether the empirical behavior of the software is up to spec. 
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edited February 2020

Now let's apply this lens to the Azimuth code project as it evolved.

Comment Source:Now let's apply this lens to the Azimuth code project as it evolved. 
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Note: I came to Azimuth just after the heyday of the Azimuth code project, and tried, unsuccessfully, to lead it to a revival. In what follows, my assessments of what happened before I came are therefore somewhat conjectural.

Comment Source:Note: I came to Azimuth just after the heyday of the Azimuth code project, and tried, unsuccessfully, to lead it to a revival. In what follows, my assessments of what happened before I came are therefore somewhat conjectural.
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edited February 2020

Our end-users were the real practitioners of natural science in the forum. That included, at least, Jan, Paul, Graham, nad, and, to some extent John. I know there are others who have come and gone, but you are the ones who stand out in my mind as having persisted here over time. (Though Graham and nad haven't been around for some time now.)

I'm not sure when Nathan Urban and Chris Goddard joined in.

Have I missed anyone else?

Please nobody take offense at being called end users - I mean it in the best sense of the term - you know what is needed, and that is very valuable!! Further I didn't say that you are generic end users, who typically are not able to clearly articulate what the software should do. My impression of you as a group is that you are sophisticated end users, who can also perform functions of business analysis and programming.

Comment Source:Our end-users were the real practitioners of natural science in the forum. That included, at least, Jan, Paul, Graham, nad, and, to some extent John. I know there are others who have come and gone, but you are the ones who stand out in my mind as having persisted here over time. (Though Graham and nad haven't been around for some time now.) I'm not sure when Nathan Urban and Chris Goddard joined in. Have I missed anyone else? Please nobody take offense at being called end users - I mean it in the best sense of the term - you _know_ what is needed, and that is very valuable!! Further I didn't say that you are _generic_ end users, who typically are not able to clearly articulate what the software should do. My impression of you as a group is that you are _sophisticated_ end users, who can also perform functions of business analysis and programming. 
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edited February 2020

John played an interesting and key role, and successfully led the team to develop some cool toy climate model. These were building blocks for experimenting and learning, and following this program one could incrementally proceed towards more complex, concrete models.

Although John wasn't a climate scientist by training, he was making sufficient inroads in his understanding to be able to function as an 'end user' who could specify what the code for these models should do.

Felicitously, at that time, the forum was inhabited by a band of uber-developers, like Tim van Beek, Allan Erskine and the late David Tweed, who were masters of programming and also knew a lot about the math involved in the climate modeling, including stochastic calculus and what have you.

They banded together into a close-knit team that worked admirably well. As a team, they had all the functions covered: end-user requirements, business analysis, software design and programming.

Note, I'm not clear when Jim joined the team, and whether he was part of the first wave of the code project.

Comment Source:John played an interesting and key role, and successfully led the team to develop some cool toy climate model. These were building blocks for experimenting and learning, and following this program one could incrementally proceed towards more complex, concrete models. Although John wasn't a climate scientist by training, he was making sufficient inroads in his understanding to be able to function as an 'end user' who could specify what the code for these models should do. Felicitously, at that time, the forum was inhabited by a band of uber-developers, like Tim van Beek, Allan Erskine and the late David Tweed, who were masters of programming and also knew a lot about the math involved in the climate modeling, including stochastic calculus and what have you. They banded together into a close-knit team that worked admirably well. As a team, they had all the functions covered: end-user requirements, business analysis, software design and programming. Note, I'm not clear when Jim joined the team, and whether he was part of the first wave of the code project. 
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edited February 2020

But by the time I arrived, the configuration had changed.

Most of the core developers had effectively left, and John was working to crystallize the ideas for his current research agenda into a 'green mathematics' founded in category theory.

Comment Source:But by the time I arrived, the configuration had changed. Most of the core developers had effectively left, and John was working to crystallize the ideas for his current research agenda into a 'green mathematics' founded in category theory. 
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edited February 2020

An opportunity was therefore created for new people to step into the role. And that opportunity remains in the present.

Comment Source:An opportunity was therefore created for new people to step into the role. And that opportunity _remains_ in the present. 
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edited February 2020

But I think we should be clear about what it would really take to fulfill that role, which is no small thing.

To make any progress, the people who will do the programming will need clear statements of requirements.

In the absence of clear requirements, any talk of a code project can only be pomp and circumstance, or tilting at windmills.

Note: here I am of course talking about a climate modeling code project. Things are altogether different when assessing the prospects for a code project for functional programming. There we are dealing with developers who can fulfill all the roles, so it would be a much easier nut to crack. Which is not to to say that it would be easy :).

Comment Source:But I think we should be clear about what it would really take to fulfill that role, which is no small thing. To make any progress, the people who will do the programming will need clear statements of _requirements_. In the absence of clear requirements, any talk of a code project can only be pomp and circumstance, or tilting at windmills. Note: here I am of course talking about a _climate modeling_ code project. Things are altogether different when assessing the prospects for a code project for functional programming. There we are dealing with developers who can fulfill all the roles, so it would be a much easier nut to crack. Which is not to to say that it would be easy :).
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edited February 2020

So to assess let's begin with a query to the primary active 'end users' here, who I believe to be Paul (WebHubTel), Jan, and Chris Goddard, and possibly Jim.

Forgive me if I missed anyone, I've only been reading the category theory stuff here lately.

Comment Source:So to assess let's begin with a query to the primary active 'end users' here, who I believe to be Paul (WebHubTel), Jan, and Chris Goddard, and possibly Jim. Forgive me if I missed anyone, I've only been reading the category theory stuff here lately. 
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So, guys, what can you tell us about your level of interest in a code project.

What kinds of code do you write for yourselves?

Do you see any interesting needs or opportunities for new software to be developed?

Comment Source:So, guys, what can you tell us about your level of interest in a code project. What kinds of code do you write for yourselves? Do you see any interesting needs or opportunities for new software to be developed?
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I think the existing Azimuth project github repo should be used. All that's needed is a new directory "ProgrammingWithCategories". @MathewDoty + ano wrote some excellent Haskell code based on Conal Elliot's "Compiling to Categories" paper for the Applied Category theory course on Azimuth. I don't know if you read the post where I offered to add you as an admin on the existing Azimuth repo?

Comment Source:I think the existing Azimuth project github repo should be used. All that's needed is a new directory "ProgrammingWithCategories". @MathewDoty + ano wrote some excellent Haskell code based on Conal Elliot's "Compiling to Categories" paper for the Applied Category theory course on Azimuth. I don't know if you read the post where I offered to add you as an admin on the existing Azimuth repo? 
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I am enthusiastic about the idea of participating in principle, however I do have competing demands on my time and would not want to over promise in terms of the use of it.

That being said, however, the timing happens to be moderately good for me, as I have reached a logical place to pause in my existing research programme and take on something new this year. As to what exactly that looks like, that remains to be seen. But learning some category theory and functional programming sounds like a nice diversion, certainly!

Finding ways to improve social infrastructure, such as introducing the idea of botlike 'mediators' backed by humans to help establish stability in islands of dissensus could be an interesting problem domain to explore. (I recently read a slew of articles on ribbonfarm, the latest being dated December 2019, that described this sort of idea)

As to the code that I write, I tend to write all sorts of things, in a fairly mediocre way :-)

Comment Source:I am enthusiastic about the idea of participating in principle, however I do have competing demands on my time and would not want to over promise in terms of the use of it. That being said, however, the timing happens to be moderately good for me, as I have reached a logical place to pause in my existing research programme and take on something new this year. As to what exactly that looks like, that remains to be seen. But learning some category theory and functional programming sounds like a nice diversion, certainly! Finding ways to improve social infrastructure, such as introducing the idea of botlike 'mediators' backed by humans to help establish stability in islands of dissensus could be an interesting problem domain to explore. (I recently read a slew of articles on ribbonfarm, the latest being dated December 2019, that described this sort of idea) As to the code that I write, I tend to write all sorts of things, in a fairly mediocre way :-)
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I have two software framework projects completed and version controlled on GitHub. One is a declarative framework for the semantic web that I am using for earth science models and the other is a component infrastructure for Petri net models which works both in real-time or simulation-time mode.

Comment Source:I have two software framework projects completed and version controlled on GitHub. One is a declarative framework for the semantic web that I am using for earth science models and the other is a component infrastructure for Petri net models which works both in real-time or simulation-time mode. 
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@WebHubTel - interesting! I hadn't realized that there is active development going on here.

Are they checked in to one of the Azimuth project repositories, and if so, can you tell us the paths?

Perhaps we should do a high level survey of what we've got so far in the repos, before committing to making a new repository for the forum. I.e., what are the various repos, and what meaningful stuff do they hold.

If there's an active azimuth project repo, then another possibility would be just to make top-level folders in the main repository for each of the courses. (And scrap my idea for a new forum repository.)

I'm somewhat far away from all of this, having not interacted with any of it.

Anyone up for giving a sketch of what we've got?

Comment Source:@WebHubTel - interesting! I hadn't realized that there is active development going on here. Are they checked in to one of the Azimuth project repositories, and if so, can you tell us the paths? Perhaps we should do a high level survey of what we've got so far in the repos, before committing to making a new repository for the forum. I.e., what are the various repos, and what meaningful stuff do they hold. If there's an active azimuth project repo, then another possibility would be just to make top-level folders in the main repository for each of the courses. (And scrap my idea for a new forum repository.) I'm somewhat far away from all of this, having not interacted with any of it. Anyone up for giving a sketch of what we've got? 
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edited February 2020

@Chris Goddard

Glad to hear you're interested, and open to new stuff. To be clear, were you thinking of climate related software development, functional programming stuff, or both?

Do you have any ideas for new programs to write, cool and/or useful new functionality, or did you mean more that you're available to participate in group effort, were it to get going?

I extend that question to everyone here.

A good way to get a code project going would be to start "daydreaming," to ourselves and then on the forum, what software we would like to have or make, and how it would function at a general level. Talking about languages or implementation platforms at this stage would seem like expecting the tail to wag the dog. Once we have some general requirements in mind, that will set the stage for talking about platforms.

Another mode is available for people who want to use the repo to work out programming exercises from the courses or elsewhere. But the operative principle is the same: requirements/goals drive designs which drive implementations. With the exercises, the requirements are totally specified by the text of the exercise, which makes it very easy to get going.

Comment Source:@Chris Goddard Glad to hear you're interested, and open to new stuff. To be clear, were you thinking of climate related software development, functional programming stuff, or both? Do you have any ideas for new programs to write, cool and/or useful new functionality, or did you mean more that you're available to participate in group effort, were it to get going? I extend that question to everyone here. A good way to get a code project going would be to start "daydreaming," to ourselves and then on the forum, what software we would like to have or make, and how it would function at a general level. Talking about languages or implementation platforms at this stage would seem like expecting the tail to wag the dog. Once we have some general _requirements_ in mind, that will set the stage for talking about platforms. Another mode is available for people who want to use the repo to work out programming exercises from the courses or elsewhere. But the operative principle is the same: requirements/goals drive designs which drive implementations. With the exercises, the requirements are _totally specified_ by the text of the exercise, which makes it very easy to get going. 
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@WebHubTel I'm particularly interested in the component infrastructure for Petri nets. Would you be up for starting a discussion, giving some information about what it does, and, possibly, an overview of how it works?

Comment Source:@WebHubTel I'm particularly interested in the component infrastructure for Petri nets. Would you be up for starting a discussion, giving some information about what it does, and, possibly, an overview of how it works?
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were you thinking of climate related software development, functional programming stuff, or both?

Just functional programming for the time being.

Do you have any ideas for new programs to write, cool and/or useful new functionality, or did you mean more that you're available to participate in group effort, were it to get going?

I have one or two seeds of an idea, but it needs a lot more thought, and it is not climate science related.

However I am certainly available to participate, in a very casual way, in a group effort.

Comment Source:>were you thinking of climate related software development, functional programming stuff, or both? Just functional programming for the time being. >Do you have any ideas for new programs to write, cool and/or useful new functionality, or did you mean more that you're available to participate in group effort, were it to get going? I have one or two seeds of an idea, but it needs a lot more thought, and it is not climate science related. However I am certainly available to participate, in a very casual way, in a group effort.
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Cool, on both counts. Let us know if and when you have some ideas to present!

Comment Source:Cool, on both counts. Let us know if and when you have some ideas to present! 
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edited February 2020

Ideas are what we will need to get started!

Comment Source:Ideas are what we will need to get started! 
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edited February 2020

Here is my present idea for a code project. We find some good texts on functional programming, with good programming exercises -- preferably online and free -- organize the problem sets, and then start chipping away at them. We could each work in our own folders. There could be a group folder as well, into which we would combine the best aspects of any of our individual solutions, to make a nice "published" version of the answers. We could arrive at the published versions by a review and discussion process on the forum.

To me, this sounds like it would be informative, fun, and good for team building. And we'd have a concrete plan of action, thanks to the authors of the problem sets.

Comment Source:Here is my present idea for a code project. We find some good texts on functional programming, with good programming exercises -- preferably online and free -- organize the problem sets, and then start chipping away at them. We could each work in our own folders. There could be a group folder as well, into which we would combine the best aspects of any of our individual solutions, to make a nice "published" version of the answers. We could arrive at the published versions by a review and discussion process on the forum. To me, this sounds like it would be informative, fun, and good for team building. And we'd have a concrete plan of action, thanks to the authors of the problem sets. 
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It would be best if we could find free and open sources, so there would be no issue with us republishing the whole set of exercises.

More generally: I wouldn't want to open the group to any jeopardy by engaging in practices that do not clearly fall under the rubric of fair use.

But it's no biggie if we would settle upon a text which is not free and open. All that would mean is that we may need to pay for our own copies, and we couldn't whole hog republish all the exercises. We could still publish all of our solutions, which would be programs that we have created.

Note that I said "all" of the exercises. I don't necessarily mean that literally. But I do mean it to signal the intention to systematically and thoroughly explore the topic of functional programming, by means of a group activity.

Comment Source:It would be best if we could find free and open sources, so there would be no issue with us republishing the whole set of exercises. More generally: I wouldn't want to open the group to any jeopardy by engaging in practices that do not clearly fall under the rubric of fair use. But it's no biggie if we would settle upon a text which is not free and open. All that would mean is that we may need to pay for our own copies, and we couldn't whole hog republish all the exercises. We could still publish all of our solutions, which would be programs that we have created. Note that I said "all" of the exercises. I don't necessarily mean that literally. But I do mean it to signal the intention to _systematically and thoroughly_ explore the topic of functional programming, by means of a group activity. 
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edited February 2020

We could treat this as a first project for the incipient Azimuth Forum ACT study group.

Query for indications of interest...

Comment Source:We could treat this as a first project for the incipient Azimuth Forum ACT study group. Query for indications of interest... 
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edited February 2020

The first step would be to collect references to good Haskell textbooks and problem sets -- with this very directed perspective in mind.

Call for references...

Comment Source:The first step would be to collect references to good Haskell textbooks and problem sets -- with this very directed perspective in mind. Call for references... 
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edited February 2020

Sidenote: regarding github, I recently wrote the following:

Anyone up for giving a sketch of what we've got?

I'm taking up my offer, and am now surveying what's there. I'll post to a separate discussion, where we can hash out a plan together. Now is the best time to get things right, as we're just beginning to get the engine restarted. It's been a long winter!

Comment Source:Sidenote: regarding github, I recently wrote the following: > Anyone up for giving a sketch of what we've got? I'm taking up my offer, and am now surveying what's there. I'll post to a separate discussion, where we can hash out a plan together. Now is the best time to get things right, as we're just beginning to get the engine restarted. It's been a long winter!
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edited February 2020

@DavidTanzer: If people are interested I have some independent research I would like to polish up, ultimately for publication. I wouldn't mind making slide decks and presenting. Most of it is pure math I've formalized in a computer proof system, but I've also written Haskell implementations of the decision algorithms I've recovered from my proofs.

Comment Source:@DavidTanzer: If people are interested I have some independent research I would like to polish up, ultimately for publication. I wouldn't mind making slide decks and presenting. Most of it is pure math I've formalized in a computer proof system, but I've also written Haskell implementations of the decision algorithms I've recovered from my proofs.
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@MatthewDoty Great!!

I would be very interested to see your slide decks.

Do you have a preferred (web-friendly) format in mind for your slides?

In the upcoming weeks, I intend to create a new wiki space (as a satellite web on the Azimuth wiki) to serve as home base for our ACT study group. That could eventually be a place to place your decks.

You can experiment the wiki now, by creating a test page on the main Azimuth web (just google "azimuth project").

The software is Instiki.

It supports S5 slide shows. I've never tried it, but it sounds like an interesting idea. It uses Markdown, and can handle SVG images, among other things.

Comment Source:@MatthewDoty Great!! I would be very interested to see your slide decks. Do you have a preferred (web-friendly) format in mind for your slides? In the upcoming weeks, I intend to create a new wiki space (as a satellite web on the Azimuth wiki) to serve as home base for our ACT study group. That could eventually be a place to place your decks. You can experiment the wiki now, by creating a test page on the main Azimuth web (just google "azimuth project"). The software is Instiki. It supports [S5 slide shows](https://golem.ph.utexas.edu/wiki/instiki/show/S5). I've never tried it, but it sounds like an interesting idea. It uses Markdown, and can handle SVG images, among other things. 
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32.

Note: As you begin to use Instiki, I anticipate that you will quickly appreciate both its simplicity and elegance, the strength of its latex support, and its limitations and quirks as well. At this point, we have invested a lot in this platform, and have a solid connection with the primary developer, Jacques Distler, who is closely tied to the nLab community. In other words, this is what we got to work with. For any bugs we find, or good ideas for new features, we can pass these along to Jacques for consideration. He has been very responsive.

Not that I'm saying this is forever. If one day we hit a major wall that holds us back, then everything could be reevaluated. But a change in platform would be rather expensive in terms of labor time - and it would be a cost that would be charged to my personal labor account.

So in advance I ask for people's kind indulgence when it comes to the quirks of Instiki. Thank you!

Comment Source:Note: As you begin to use Instiki, I anticipate that you will quickly appreciate both its simplicity and elegance, the strength of its latex support, and its limitations and quirks as well. At this point, we have invested a _lot_ in this platform, and have a solid connection with the primary developer, Jacques Distler, who is closely tied to the nLab community. In other words, this is what we got to work with. For any bugs we find, or good ideas for new features, we can pass these along to Jacques for consideration. He has been very responsive. Not that I'm saying this is forever. If one day we hit a major wall that holds us back, then everything could be reevaluated. But a change in platform would be rather expensive in terms of labor time - and it would be a cost that would be charged to my personal labor account. So in advance I ask for people's kind indulgence when it comes to the quirks of Instiki. Thank you! 
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@MatthewDoty I've sent an invite to xcthulhu to be an azimuth-project owner so you can perhaps link to your existing repos. I searched for kwarizmii but fwiw I got a "cannot access" msg.

Comment Source:@MatthewDoty I've sent an invite to xcthulhu to be an azimuth-project owner so you can perhaps link to your existing repos. I searched for kwarizmii but fwiw I got a "cannot access" msg. 
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@chrisgoddard if you post your github name I can invite you to the azimuth-project org. We need more people to be admins if you might be up for that?

Comment Source:@chrisgoddard if you post your github name I can invite you to the azimuth-project org. We need more people to be admins if you might be up for that?
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My style in R tends to be functional, but not entirely. I use a lot of packages, and so, when doing so, y'really need to adopt the philosophy of the package builders. I spend a lot of time with R's data.table and ranger and abcrf and BART and others, because I deal with big datasets and codes that rely on a lot of concurrency. (I use Amazon EC2 a lot.)

Question: What's the relationship between Haskell and OCAML? Differences?

Comment Source:My style in **R** tends to be functional, but not entirely. I use a *lot* of packages, and so, when doing so, y'really need to adopt the philosophy of the package builders. I spend a lot of time with **R**'s *data.table* and *ranger* and *abcrf* and *BART* and others, because I deal with big datasets and codes that rely on a lot of concurrency. (I use Amazon EC2 a lot.) Question: What's the relationship between Haskell and OCAML? Differences? 
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36.
edited February 2020

@JanGalkowski "If Haskell is a niche language, then OCaml is a super-niche language" is one take on the comparison. Plus, original HoTT codes (much being written by @JohnBaez's long-term pal Mike Shulman) were written in Coq which is written in OCaml. Agda and now Agda-HoTT are written in Haskell.

Comment Source:@JanGalkowski "If Haskell is a niche language, then OCaml is a super-niche language" is [one take](https://markkarpov.com/post/haskell-vs-ocaml.html) on the comparison. Plus, original [HoTT](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homotopy_type_theory) codes (much being written by @JohnBaez's long-term pal Mike Shulman) were written in Coq which is written in OCaml. Agda and now Agda-HoTT are written in Haskell. 
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37.
edited February 2020

Jim wrote:

@chrisgoddard if you post your github name I can invite you to the azimuth-project org. We need more people to be admins if you might be up for that?

How many admins do we need? I'm fine with adding Chris as an admin since he's a trusted member of the community here (as is Matthew), but what is the need for a proliferation of admins?

It only seems like a small handful of people have expressed interest in coding at the moment. Hopefully we're only going to be creating a relatively small number of judiciously chosen repos. Then the remaining seven people in this discussion just need commit priviliges. It's such small load right now that one person with a backup could handle the job. In any case, can we cap to you, me, Matthew and Jan. It's just a lot of rights to be throwing around, so that should be done in proportion to the need.

Comment Source:Jim wrote: >@chrisgoddard if you post your github name I can invite you to the azimuth-project org. We need more people to be admins if you might be up for that? How many admins do we need? I'm fine with adding Chris as an admin since he's a trusted member of the community here (as is Matthew), but what is the need for a proliferation of admins? It only seems like a small handful of people have expressed interest in coding at the moment. Hopefully we're only going to be creating a relatively small number of judiciously chosen repos. Then the remaining seven people in this discussion just need commit priviliges. It's such small load right now that one person with a backup could handle the job. In any case, can we cap to you, me, Matthew and Jan. It's just a lot of rights to be throwing around, so that should be done in proportion to the need. 
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38.

Yeah, I don't want any important responsibilities here. I am happy to contribute from time to time, though. I can simply move anything I've done to the Github I have, although I am a complete Github novice.

Comment Source:Yeah, I don't want any important responsibilities here. I am happy to contribute from time to time, though. I can simply move anything I've done to the Github I have, although I am a complete Github novice.
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39.

The two projects I mentioned in #18 reside in my paid-for-subscription GitHub repository at the moment. FYI, my semantic web project is written in Prolog, which is the #1 programming language in the world. And my Petri net framework is written in Ada, which is the #1 programming language in the world.

Comment Source:The two projects I mentioned in [#18](/discussion/comment/21636/#Comment_21636) reside in my paid-for-subscription GitHub repository at the moment. FYI, my semantic web project is written in Prolog, which is the #1 programming language in the world. And my Petri net framework is written in Ada, which is the #1 programming language in the world.
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40.

Bearing in mind principle of least privilege, I believe I would prefer to just have commit access.

if you post your github name I can invite you to the azimuth-project org.

Thank you for the overture; my github handle is token-cjg (note the dash between token and cjg).

I look forward to learning along with the other contributors.

Comment Source:Bearing in mind principle of least privilege, I believe I would prefer to just have commit access. >if you post your github name I can invite you to the azimuth-project org. Thank you for the overture; my github handle is token-cjg (note the dash between token and cjg). I look forward to learning along with the other contributors.