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Ive started a page on Sage with some basics on how to get going.

## Comments

I hope Joris Vankerschaven and others join in the Sage project.

I've changed the 'category' of the Sage page from 'computational methods' to 'software', and move this discussion thread from 'Latest changes' to 'Latest changes: software'. I think 'computational methods' are supposed to be more like algorithms than computer languages. But what do I know?

Hmm, Java and R are classified under 'computational methods' rather than 'software'.

So maybe some computer guru can make a decision on whether programming languages should go under 'computational methods' or 'software', and implement this!

`<img src = "http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/emoticons/thumbsup.gif" alt = ""/> I hope Joris Vankerschaven and others join in the Sage project. I've changed the 'category' of the [[Sage]] page from 'computational methods' to 'software', and move this discussion thread from 'Latest changes' to 'Latest changes: software'. I think 'computational methods' are supposed to be more like algorithms than computer languages. But what do I know? Hmm, [[Java]] and [[R]] are classified under 'computational methods' rather than 'software'. So maybe some computer guru can make a decision on whether programming languages should go under 'computational methods' or 'software', and implement this!`

Changed Java and R to category:software. I think software is more accurate than computational methods, let's use software for the platform or the tools, and computational methods for descriptions of what can be done with them.

`Changed Java and R to category:software. I think software is more accurate than computational methods, let's use software for the platform or the tools, and computational methods for descriptions of what can be done with them.`

Thanks.

`Thanks. <img src = "http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/emoticons/thumbsup.gif" alt = ""/>`

very observant john . u can gve yourself two stars I hope so too. I will enter (links) their code .

i also tried out the predator prey code verbatim in sage and running it in R mode produced identical plots. so Sage has improved a lot for using R in the notebooks

I made it public for a while so u guys can see (it can be revoked)

`very observant john . u can gve yourself two stars I hope so too. I will enter (links) their code . i also tried out the predator prey code verbatim in sage and running it in R mode produced identical plots. so Sage has improved a lot for using R in the notebooks I [made it public for a while](http://sagenb.org/home/pub/2662/) so u guys can see (it can be revoked)`

I added a link to a tutorial from UseR last year, introducing Sage to R programmers and a lot of references

`I added a link to a tutorial from UseR last year, introducing Sage to R programmers and a lot of references`

Added a comment about setting up a Sage server on a Windows machine. I killed more time than I'd like to admit trying to figure out VirtualBox only to learn it is no longer supported. Be sure to install VMware instead.

`Added a comment about setting up a Sage server on a Windows machine. I killed more time than I'd like to admit trying to figure out VirtualBox only to learn it is no longer supported. Be sure to install VMware instead.`

By the way, I am quickly becoming enamored by Sage and NumPy (+matplotlib).

One reason I didn't convert earlier (~5 years ago) was that I like having interactive visualization when I'm building models. Matlab is pretty good with that, but matplotlib also looks very good:

Any idea how to add a MIME type in Firefox under VMware? jmol doesn't seem to be working (may not even be installed ???)

`By the way, I am quickly becoming enamored by Sage and NumPy (+matplotlib). One reason I didn't convert earlier (~5 years ago) was that I like having interactive visualization when I'm building models. Matlab is pretty good with that, but matplotlib also looks very good: * [Gallery](http://matplotlib.sourceforge.net/gallery.html) Any idea how to add a MIME type in Firefox under VMware? jmol doesn't seem to be working (may not even be installed ???)`

Sounds like you are having fun! Kudos on adding this Eric. Ill check how to add MIME types because I need to get that to work on my installation. I have never done any serious things in Matlab, just read a book on scientific programming in Octave (its open source cousin). But my wife uses it at her work so I gave her a crash course in Matlab. My concern is with non-programming people learning yet another language syntax. BTW I answered on what you need to install Python for scientific purposes here

`Sounds like you are having fun! Kudos on adding this Eric. Ill check how to add MIME types because I need to get that to work on my installation. I have never done any serious things in Matlab, just read a book on scientific programming in Octave (its open source cousin). But my wife uses it at her work so I gave her a crash course in Matlab. My concern is with non-programming people learning yet another language syntax. BTW I answered on what you need to [install Python for scientific purposes here](http://www.math.ntnu.no/~stacey/Mathforge/Azimuth/comments.php?DiscussionID=595&Focus=3570#Comment_3570)`

The icosahedron() JMOL in the 'Test' worksheet, works on my verbatime Sage/VMWare installation. Was that the one you referred to?

`The icosahedron() JMOL in the 'Test' worksheet, works on my verbatime Sage/VMWare installation. Was that the one you referred to?`

Hi Staffan,

I trust you had a great weekend :)

Yeah, I've been having a bit of fun lately. I decided that I do not need Sage because I'm not crazy about VMware. I think that running Python, NumPy, SciPy, and matplotlib is more than sufficient for anything I want to do for now.

I imagine that any code you've written in Sage should probably work outside Sage though. I still haven't had a look yet.

By the way, I asked about CAD formats, but now I'm turning more to mesh formats used for finite element methods (FEM). A friend of mine recommended json for associating physical properties to the grid.

There is also an old conjecture of mine I'd like to test out with triangulations of a sphere.

`Hi Staffan, I trust you had a great weekend :) Yeah, I've been having a bit of fun lately. I decided that I do not need Sage because I'm not crazy about VMware. I think that running Python, NumPy, SciPy, and matplotlib is more than sufficient for anything I want to do for now. I imagine that any code you've written in Sage should probably work outside Sage though. I still haven't had a look yet. By the way, I asked about CAD formats, but now I'm turning more to mesh formats used for finite element methods (FEM). A friend of mine recommended [json](http://json.org/) for associating physical properties to the grid. There is also an [old conjecture](http://ncatlab.org/ericforgy/show/diamonation) of mine I'd like to test out with triangulations of a sphere.`

@Staffan

Probably. I'll give it a try after installing JMOL. Thanks! :)

Edit: On second thought, I might hold off on JMOL. I want something designed more for FEM type applications.

`@Staffan >The icosahedron() JMOL in the 'Test' worksheet, works on my verbatime Sage/VMWare installation. Was that the one you referred to? Probably. I'll give it a try after installing JMOL. Thanks! :) Edit: On second thought, I might hold off on JMOL. I want something designed more for FEM type applications.`

Did you see Femhub project . They include a lot of FEM related libs and their lab is based on Sage. I don't if Tim ever got to try it and I just created an account but didnt create any project. I was more in the mod getting impressions for a tentative ...labs.azim.

Sage allows you to do any kind of app that python support :-) and JSON is good too and a reaction to many of the over-verbose XML standards. The Sage tutorial shows how this can be done

For your conjecture you might miss out on not using Sage, they have added a lot of relevant packages for doing abstract algebra, category theory, from start and right now in the latest two releases they added dynamics CAs, shifts, surface dynamics and more . If you want to I can point you to a worksheet I have. Is it Morse functors you are interested in?

`Did you see [Femhub project](http://femhub.org) . They include a lot of [FEM related libs](http://femhub.org/codes.php) and their lab is based on Sage. I don't if Tim ever got to try it and I just created an account but didnt create any project. I was more in the mod getting impressions for a tentative ...labs.azim. Sage allows you to do any kind of app that python support :-) and JSON is good too and a reaction to many of the over-verbose XML standards. The Sage tutorial shows how this can be done For your conjecture you might miss out on not using Sage, they have added a lot of relevant packages for doing abstract algebra, category theory, from start and right now in the latest two releases they [added dynamics](http://wiki.sagemath.org/dynamics) CAs, shifts, surface dynamics and more . If you want to I can point you to a worksheet I have. Is it Morse functors you are interested in?`

Staffan said:

Nope, the problem is that everybody and his cat is writing FEM libraries that

solve some kind of special problem,

compile on some, but not all OS,

are written in a hodgepodge of programming languages and paradigms,

have their own idiosynchratic APIs and visualization tools and data structures etc.

It's like the flood of calculus textbook that everybody and his dog is writing after teaching classes for 2 years. How am I supposed to evaluate all of those...bu hu hu...(where are those smileys again? I need the one crying in despair.)

`Staffan said: <blockquote> <p> I don't [know] if Tim ever got to try it ... </p> </blockquote> Nope, the problem is that everybody and his cat is writing FEM libraries that * solve some kind of special problem, * compile on some, but not all OS, * are written in a hodgepodge of programming languages and paradigms, * have their own idiosynchratic APIs and visualization tools and data structures etc. It's like the flood of calculus textbook that everybody and his dog is writing after teaching classes for 2 years. How am I supposed to evaluate all of those...bu hu hu...(where are those smileys again? I need the one crying in despair.)`

Not sure how I missed it, but no, I hadn't seen FEMhub. Thanks!

I don't want an FEM code, per se. I can write that myself. But I would be interested in mesh viewers, etc. I think we should code the physics ourselves. After all, that is the fun part!

When I was at MIT/LL, I wrote my own simplistic CAD modeler/mesh generator/viewer. It was fairly slick and 100% context menu based. Tempted to do it again in Python for Azimuth related stuff...

`> Did you see Femhub project . They include a lot of FEM related libs and their lab is based on Sage. Not sure how I missed it, but no, I hadn't seen FEMhub. Thanks! I don't want an FEM code, per se. I can write that myself. But I would be interested in mesh viewers, etc. I think we should code the physics ourselves. After all, that is the fun part! When I was at MIT/LL, I wrote my own simplistic CAD modeler/mesh generator/viewer. It was fairly slick and 100% context menu based. Tempted to do it again in Python for Azimuth related stuff...`

Here is a SAGE model of a flying paper airplane. No cute image of a paper airplane flying around, but it's the sort of thing some of you here have been making: a model where the user can adjust sliders on their web browser and see a graph that depends on this input.

`[Here](http://interact.sagemath.org/node/48) is a SAGE model of a flying paper airplane. No cute image of a paper airplane flying around, but it's the sort of thing some of you here have been making: a model where the user can adjust sliders on their web browser and see a graph that depends on this input.`

Eric: femhub has some viewers but mainly rely on outside viewers, but for modelling they have a whole bunch of goodies.

John: I was actually planning on using this way of doing interaction, which i already have in the box modeler code. But there is also the new approach of Sage cell server, which i like more. Plus it might be the way sage interact evolves. We could run it on the Azimuth server as i'ts just a basic javascript library. Click on Graph Theory, Interact and then the example Induced subgraphs. Press evaluate and then you can decide which node to delete and it redraws the graph. Pretty cool !

`Eric: femhub has some viewers but mainly rely on outside viewers, but for modelling they have a whole bunch of goodies. John: I was actually planning on using this way of doing interaction, which i already have in the box modeler code. But there is also the new approach of [Sage cell server](http://www.sagemath.org/eval.html), which i like more. Plus it might be the way sage interact evolves. We could run it on the Azimuth server as i'ts just a basic javascript library. Click on Graph Theory, Interact and then the example Induced subgraphs. Press evaluate and then you can decide which node to delete and it redraws the graph. Pretty cool !`