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Is it just me that's shocked there's a facebook page on Pade approximants?

I can't resist the obvious gag: it's missing the status, presumably "It's complicated". (Sorry, I'll get my coat.)

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1.

Facebook has apparently copied all of Wikipedia into pages that you can "like". (example)

Comment Source:Facebook has apparently copied all of Wikipedia into pages that you can "like". (<a href="http://www.facebook.com/pages/Crackpot-index/124564177588326">example</a>)
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2.

Un-be-lievable.

But it looks as if both Facebook and Twitter get a lot of attention and are becoming essential for anyone who would like to get some attention on the internet. I don't like both, but it would seem that we'll sonner or later have to join the bandwagon, for Azimuth's sake.

Comment Source:Un-be-lievable. But it looks as if both Facebook and Twitter get a lot of attention and are becoming essential for anyone who would like to get some attention on the internet. I don't like both, but it would seem that we'll sonner or later have to join the bandwagon, for Azimuth's sake.
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3.

Perhaps one could just wait till someone creates the page Azimuth on Wikipedia ;-)

Comment Source:Perhaps one could just wait till someone creates the page Azimuth on Wikipedia ;-)
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4.

But I see your point, of course :-)

Comment Source:<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azimuth">Azimuth</a>. But I see your point, of course :-) That leaves Twitter...
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5.

John's comment about tweeting was quite funny

And I think it's correct, because:

if receiver sensitivity increases, signal strength does not need to increase but, instead, is more likely to decrease owing to the attendant costs of conspicuous or loud signals

If signal strength increases over the generations this suggests, on the other hand, that there has been increasing sales resistance on the side of the receiver

Comment Source:[John's comment about tweeting](http://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/2010/12/07/this-weeks-finds-week-306-2/#comment-3040) was quite funny And I think it's correct, because: > if receiver sensitivity increases, signal strength does not need to increase but, instead, is more likely to decrease owing to the attendant costs of conspicuous or loud signals > If signal strength increases over the generations this suggests, on the other hand, that there has been increasing sales resistance on the side of the receiver
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6.

LMAO ! Hilarious .

Comment Source:LMAO ! Hilarious .
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7.

Does anyone here use Facebook or Twitter?

Comment Source:Does anyone here use Facebook or Twitter?
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8.

I sometimes use Facebook, because some of my friends are on it, so it's purely private business.

Comment Source:I sometimes use Facebook, because some of my friends are on it, so it's purely private business.
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9.

John,

I didn't use Twitter at all until a few months ago. Now I am on there every day for several hours. It is nothing at all like what I was expecting. Nothing like it. It is the single best idea on the internet that I have seen. Better than blogging. I was one of the big skeptics a few months ago and I could not have been more wrong.

I thought it was just a bunch of people saying inane things about their life. Many do use it for that, but it is something much more important for many other users.

It is a way of connecting networks of individuals with common goals or ideas together.

It is a very easy way to engage like-minded people in conversations. Even some very famous people.

It is a very easy way to get a lot of information about what is going on. Like a dynamic realtime index of the most relevant news.

It is a great way to ask questions in realtime to get feedback and answers. The realtime nature of the feedback is qualitatively different than blog comments.

Picking the right people to follow is the key. Start with a few people you might have heard of. Then look at who they "retweet" and if someone says something thought provoking, check out their feed and see if they might be worth following. It won't take too long before you have a custom feed with regular information coming in from many very smart people. You could consider them your eyes and ears. They'll find things that are interesting so you don't have to.

Or, you can start discussions with people who are active in the particular domains that interest you. Doesn't matter how well known or famous they are if you have something intelligent to say, you can reach many of them.

It is both a very easy way to reach hidden networks of like minded people and an easy way to get ideas propagated to very many people.

For someone with your reputation, you need to give it a real try for at least a few weeks. I would be very very surprised if you didn't find it to be far more useful than you thought possible.

It is also great training for short pithy expression.

If we are going to be able to save the world. We are going to have to work together with all the other like-minded people who want to save the world too. Twitter is an indispensable tool for this process.

• Curtis

P.S. If someone had told me six months ago that I would be writing this, I would have laughed at them. I thought Twitter was for fools. I have never been more wrong.

Comment Source:John, I didn't use Twitter at all until a few months ago. Now I am on there every day for several hours. It is nothing at all like what I was expecting. Nothing like it. It is the single best idea on the internet that I have seen. Better than blogging. I was one of the big skeptics a few months ago and I could not have been more wrong. I thought it was just a bunch of people saying inane things about their life. Many do use it for that, but it is something much more important for many other users. It is a way of connecting networks of individuals with common goals or ideas together. It is a very easy way to engage like-minded people in conversations. Even some very famous people. It is a very easy way to get a lot of information about what is going on. Like a dynamic realtime index of the most relevant news. It is a great way to ask questions in realtime to get feedback and answers. The realtime nature of the feedback is qualitatively different than blog comments. Picking the right people to follow is the key. Start with a few people you might have heard of. Then look at who they "retweet" and if someone says something thought provoking, check out their feed and see if they might be worth following. It won't take too long before you have a custom feed with regular information coming in from many very smart people. You could consider them your eyes and ears. They'll find things that are interesting so you don't have to. Or, you can start discussions with people who are active in the particular domains that interest you. Doesn't matter how well known or famous they are if you have something intelligent to say, you can reach many of them. It is both a very easy way to reach hidden networks of like minded people and an easy way to get ideas propagated to very many people. For someone with your reputation, you need to give it a real try for at least a few weeks. I would be very very surprised if you didn't find it to be far more useful than you thought possible. It is also great training for short pithy expression. If we are going to be able to save the world. We are going to have to work together with all the other like-minded people who want to save the world too. Twitter is an indispensable tool for this process. - Curtis P.S. If someone had told me six months ago that I would be writing this, I would have laughed at them. I thought Twitter was for fools. I have never been more wrong.
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10.

That's interesting, Curtis. I sure hope I don't spend "several hours" each day on Twitter... I don't have that much time.

Or, you can start discussions with people who are active in the particular domains that interest you.

How do you start a discussion on Twitter? Or do you use email for that, using Twitter just to locate those interesting people?

Can you say something good that's happened because you're using Twitter?

Sorry to be acting skeptical, but I already spend so much time on the computer that 2 more hours a day would spell the end to my marriage.... if I use Twitter, I'll probably need to do less of something else.

Comment Source:That's interesting, Curtis. I sure hope I don't spend "several hours" each day on Twitter... I don't have that much time. > Or, you can start discussions with people who are active in the particular domains that interest you. How do you start a discussion on Twitter? Or do you use email for that, using Twitter just to locate those interesting people? Can you say something good that's happened because you're using Twitter? Sorry to be acting skeptical, but I already spend so much time on the computer that 2 more hours a day would spell the end to my marriage.... if I use Twitter, I'll probably need to do less of something else.
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11.
edited April 2011

Very good questions.

First, you can spend as much time as you want. You certainly don't need this to be a time sink. The reason I spend so much time is that I'm still intentionally building networks of people. Searching for connected kindred spirits who are already working on projects that might benefit from collaboration. I'm using Twitter as a tool to get my work done. My research.

I'll give you the basics of Twitter.

• Messages are limited to 140 characters. One or two sentences.

• Messages can be directed at others by prefixing the username with an @ like: @johncarlosbaez

So If I wanted to send a message to you, I would write:

@johncarlosbaez Check out this new report from CERN: http://something.com

The message will show up in a special tab called "@mentions" or if you searched for "@johncarlosbaez" so you can read what people send specifically to you.

• There is some threading that goes on when people reply to messages, or tweets. (Yeah, I know it sounds really goofy.)

• People also use the # prefix to denote a topic or an adjective. This is called a hashtag.

For example, if I was tweeting on Azimuth, I might add "#Azimuth" to the end of the message. That way when people search for #Azimuth they'll find that message.

• You follow (or subscribe) to the message streams of anyone you choose. Then their tweets show up in your reading stream.

• Others can follow you and they get your tweets.

• You can retweet a message that you read so that it will go out to your followers that do not already follow the originator of the original tweet that you are retweeting. This is one of the best ways to find other smart people.

Now that you have the basics, Venessa Miemis had a great blog post: How to User Twitter to Build Intelligence that I highly suggest.

As far as something good that came to me:

1) I am in contact with perhaps 30 people who are actively working in the area of collaboration tools, open source shared intelligence, rethinking economics and sustainability issues. These are all people I have learned a great deal about that I had never heard of before. Many of the best thinkers are not well known. But some of the best thinkers who are well known follow these others, so you can follow the links and find out who the experts read and therefore whose opinions they value.

2) I met via Twitter with Umair Haque, an economist/futurist, who writes for the Harvard Business Review. His blog is here. HIs book is called the New Capitalist Manifesto. While I was in London at the beginning of the month, I met with Umair for a few hours and we discussed ways to work together to foster collaboration. He has 140,000 plus follower on Twitter, so every time he sends a message all 140,000 people get that message in their stream.

3) Through interacting with Umair and the groups that follow him, which I can see realtime by using the search "@umairh", I have established a small network of people who are working to prototype new sustainable ways of doing business in Asheville, NC which is not far. I will be meeting with them next week.

4) Finally, I was able to find some very interesting thinkers who I have learned from. One of them gave me some ideas for how math might be useful for potentially saving a lot of energy. So naturally, I thought of you.

I wrote something up for an email to the The Next Net Google user group list (they are discussing tools for building what they call the Global Brain, a collective intelligence system for crowd-sourced knowledge and decision support) that explains this idea:

There is a lot of very interesting ideas floating around. I'm trying to hook people up who don't know about how they might help each other, yet.

For instance, John Baez is a mathematical physicist who you know if you follow math or science since he started blogging before there even were blogs, publishing an email "This Weeks Finds" and web site with archives that explored and educated general science and math geeks since the mid-90s. Last year, John stopped his work on physics and math and decided to work on helping save the world. He launched the Azimuth Project see:http://www.azimuthproject.org/ which is "an international collaboration to create a focal point for scientists and engineers interested in saving the planet. Our goal is to make clearly presented, accurate information on the relevant issues easy to find, and to help people work together on our common problems."

To understand John's motivations, check out his announcement for the new change in his life's direction: http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/week301.html

John is looking for ways he and the people working on the project can help "save the world." Recently, he posted that he's not satisfied with progress yet, he thinks there is something missing. What I see missing is the connection to other like minded groups around the world. They are collaborating within the group, but not within the context of the rest of people trying to save the world.

So, after seeing Don Roble's Ingenesist site and especially the video Social Capitalism; The Value Game, it struck me that one thing that John would be really good at, is advancing the theory for optimization of shared global resources. This seems to fit into a lot of his current work.

If we knew better, for example, how much carbon comes from particular sub-optimal resource usage (like empty planes flying, or empty vacation homes, or cars that stay parked, etc.). If we could build maps and networks of the global system with a sound basis in science and math, then we can better direct our efforts in the fight against global warming and other environmental destruction. I think we also will find that we'll have a lot more fun in the process.

This is just one example where I hope to help introduce people to each other that might be able to collaborate on something really cool that will have global impact. I suspect that after John starts working with a few other people, he will find even more interesting problems where he can pitch in to help save the world.

If we all leverage our personal relationships better (and make them visible to each other more transparently), we will find that all of our individual passions progress faster and with less stress. John Baez needs better tools to do this. We need better tools to do this.

Now I don't know if this will spark your interest or not. Perhaps I don't understand the optimization problem or the math well enough. But my sense is that there is a very big potential savings here.

Look at Don Roble's video (takes about 12 minutes) and see if you don't think it would be valuable to determine exactly how much it wastes to run cars, buses, and planes at much-less-than-full capacity.

Comment Source:Very good questions. First, you can spend as much time as you want. You certainly don't need this to be a time sink. The reason I spend so much time is that I'm still intentionally building networks of people. Searching for connected kindred spirits who are already working on projects that might benefit from collaboration. I'm using Twitter as a tool to get my work done. My research. I'll give you the basics of Twitter. * Messages are limited to 140 characters. One or two sentences. * Messages can be directed at others by prefixing the username with an @ like: @johncarlosbaez So If I wanted to send a message to you, I would write: @johncarlosbaez Check out this new report from CERN: http://something.com The message will show up in a special tab called "@mentions" or if you searched for "@johncarlosbaez" so you can read what people send specifically to you. * There is some threading that goes on when people reply to messages, or tweets. (Yeah, I know it sounds really goofy.) * People also use the # prefix to denote a topic or an adjective. This is called a hashtag. For example, if I was tweeting on Azimuth, I might add "#Azimuth" to the end of the message. That way when people search for #Azimuth they'll find that message. * You follow (or subscribe) to the message streams of anyone you choose. Then their tweets show up in your reading stream. * Others can follow you and they get your tweets. * You can retweet a message that you read so that it will go out to your followers that do not already follow the originator of the original tweet that you are retweeting. This is one of the best ways to find other smart people. Now that you have the basics, Venessa Miemis had a great blog post: [How to User Twitter to Build Intelligence](http://emergentbydesign.com/2009/12/21/how-to-use-twitter-to-build-intelligence/) that I highly suggest. As far as something good that came to me: 1) I am in contact with perhaps 30 people who are actively working in the area of collaboration tools, open source shared intelligence, rethinking economics and sustainability issues. These are all people I have learned a great deal about that I had never heard of before. Many of the best thinkers are not well known. But some of the best thinkers who are well known follow these others, so you can follow the links and find out who the experts read and therefore whose opinions they value. 2) I met via Twitter with Umair Haque, an economist/futurist, who writes for the Harvard Business Review. His [blog is here](http://blogs.hbr.org/haque/). HIs book is called the New Capitalist Manifesto. While I was in London at the beginning of the month, I met with Umair for a few hours and we discussed ways to work together to foster collaboration. He has 140,000 plus follower on Twitter, so every time he sends a message all 140,000 people get that message in their stream. 3) Through interacting with Umair and the groups that follow him, which I can see realtime by using the search "@umairh", I have established a small network of people who are working to prototype new sustainable ways of doing business in Asheville, NC which is not far. I will be meeting with them next week. 4) Finally, I was able to find some very interesting thinkers who I have learned from. One of them gave me some ideas for how math might be useful for potentially saving a lot of energy. So naturally, I thought of you. I wrote something up for an email to the The Next Net Google user group list (they are discussing tools for building what they call the Global Brain, a collective intelligence system for crowd-sourced knowledge and decision support) that explains this idea: >There is a lot of very interesting ideas floating around. I'm trying to hook people up who don't know about how they might help each other, yet. >For instance, John Baez is a mathematical physicist who you know if you follow math or science since he started blogging before there even were blogs, publishing an email "This Weeks Finds" and web site with archives that explored and educated general science and math geeks since the mid-90s. Last year, John stopped his work on physics and math and decided to work on helping save the world. He launched the Azimuth Project see:[http://www.azimuthproject.org/](http://www.azimuthproject.org/) which is "an international collaboration to create a focal point for scientists and engineers interested in saving the planet. Our goal is to make clearly presented, accurate information on the relevant issues easy to find, and to help people work together on our common problems." >To understand John's motivations, check out his announcement for the new change in his life's direction: [http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/week301.html ](http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/week301.html) >John is looking for ways he and the people working on the project can help "save the world." Recently, he posted that he's not satisfied with progress yet, he thinks there is something missing. What I see missing is the connection to other like minded groups around the world. They are collaborating within the group, but not within the context of the rest of people trying to save the world. >So, after seeing Don Roble's Ingenesist site and especially the video [Social Capitalism; The Value Game](http://www.ingenesist.com/general-info/social-capitalism-the-value-game.html), it struck me that one thing that John would be really good at, is advancing the theory for optimization of shared global resources. This seems to fit into a lot of his current work. >If we knew better, for example, how much carbon comes from particular sub-optimal resource usage (like empty planes flying, or empty vacation homes, or cars that stay parked, etc.). If we could build maps and networks of the global system with a sound basis in science and math, then we can better direct our efforts in the fight against global warming and other environmental destruction. I think we also will find that we'll have a lot more fun in the process. >This is just one example where I hope to help introduce people to each other that might be able to collaborate on something really cool that will have global impact. I suspect that after John starts working with a few other people, he will find even more interesting problems where he can pitch in to help save the world. >If we all leverage our personal relationships better (and make them visible to each other more transparently), we will find that all of our individual passions progress faster and with less stress. John Baez needs better tools to do this. We need better tools to do this. Now I don't know if this will spark your interest or not. Perhaps I don't understand the optimization problem or the math well enough. But my sense is that there is a very big potential savings here. Look at Don Roble's video (takes about 12 minutes) and see if you don't think it would be valuable to determine exactly how much it wastes to run cars, buses, and planes at much-less-than-full capacity.
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12.

So just last night, while I was sleeping, I get a message from Venessa Miemis (her blog: Emergent by Design, and on Twitter @VenessaMiemis) where she says:

Was looking @ your azimuth project. i am advising on earthdash.org; any info sharing opportunities?

Check it out. You tell me.

I think it is a brilliant idea.

But the question remains, what information would be the most useful indicators of the planet's health? How do they interrelate?

Perfect questions for Twitter. I'll get some answers. Others will see I'm interested in the topic and perhaps give me a few names of other people I should follow, then I'll start to be connected to the group of people who might really know that answer.

Over the last few months, it struck me that the real opportunity for helping, and hence making a difference, lies precisely in the connecting of the disparate groups that don't know about each other or how they could help each other to make a more coherent more unified global movement towards saving the world.

A big part of the motivation is the nuts and bolts questions like:

What else should we be doing?

Will it make a difference?

How can we tell if we are making progress?

Much of the problem, arguably all, comes down to economics: incentives, structures and institutions that revolve around what we do, for whom we do it, and most of all, why.

So perhaps the reason that you posted What to do? is that you are still looking for the right spot. Azimuth is going in the right direction but still missing a connection to the larger world which will draw in help and increase relevance and meaning for the work everyone does here.

The right spot.

That's everyone's question. What do we do to best help? What do we do as individuals? What do we do as groups seeking to collaborate with other groups on a wider scale?

How do we decide?

That's a question that begs for a scientific analysis. Getting the answer requires branching out across many different domains. You need to know much more about what is going on all across the world in many leading groups to answer. I'm working on building better tools to help here, but in the meantime I suggest Twitter is the best tool for exploring the unknown that mankind has yet devised.

A global framework within which individual actions could be evaluated to help people decide for themselves to take actions that are better for the planet could be a game changer. We need a few of those.

It seems to me that there are some very interesting scientific and mathematical problems sitting at the heart of this idea.

What do you think?

Comment Source:So just last night, while I was sleeping, I get a message from Venessa Miemis ([her blog: Emergent by Design](http://emergentbydesign.com/), and [on Twitter @VenessaMiemis](http://twitter.com/#!/VenessaMiemis)) where she says: >Was looking @ your azimuth project. i am advising on [earthdash.org](http://earthdash.org); any info sharing opportunities? Check it out. You tell me. I think it is a brilliant idea. But the question remains, what information would be the most useful indicators of the planet's health? How do they interrelate? Perfect questions for Twitter. I'll get some answers. Others will see I'm interested in the topic and perhaps give me a few names of other people I should follow, then I'll start to be connected to the group of people who might really know that answer. Over the last few months, it struck me that the real opportunity for helping, and hence making a difference, lies precisely in the connecting of the disparate groups that don't know about each other or how they could help each other to make a more coherent more unified global movement towards saving the world. A big part of the motivation is the nuts and bolts questions like: What else should we be doing? Will it make a difference? How can we tell if we are making progress? Much of the problem, arguably all, comes down to economics: incentives, structures and institutions that revolve around what we do, for whom we do it, and most of all, why. So perhaps the reason that you posted [What to do?](http://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/2011/04/24/what-to-do/) is that you are still looking for the right spot. Azimuth is going in the right direction but still missing a connection to the larger world which will draw in help and increase relevance and meaning for the work everyone does here. The right spot. That's everyone's question. What do we do to best help? What do we do as individuals? What do we do as groups seeking to collaborate with other groups on a wider scale? How do we decide? That's a question that begs for a scientific analysis. Getting the answer requires branching out across many different domains. You need to know much more about what is going on all across the world in many leading groups to answer. I'm working on building better tools to help here, but in the meantime I suggest Twitter is the best tool for exploring the unknown that mankind has yet devised. A global framework within which individual actions could be evaluated to help people decide for themselves to take actions that are better for the planet could be a game changer. We need a few of those. It seems to me that there are some very interesting scientific and mathematical problems sitting at the heart of this idea. What do you think?
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13.

Minor title change to reflect its potentially more significant main content.

Comment Source:Minor title change to reflect its potentially more significant main content.
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14.
edited April 2011

Curtis wrote:

But the question remains, what information would be the most useful indicators of the planet's health? How do they interrelate?

This would be a great question for a blog post. I'm hoping to lure you into taking some of your questions and putting them on the blog instead of the Forum... you'll get more answers, and generally turn up the excitement level a notch or two.

I really like the idea of taking questions from Quora, throwing them on the blog, maybe creating up a page on the wiki for people to write answers, and then giving the Azimuth answer. We've actually got a lot of answers already, here. We're a bit short of people who need to know those answers!

I realize that if people write answers to questions, I'll be unable to resist polishing them and making them nice... especially if the answers will be credited to Azimuth. You should take advantage of this weakness of mine.

WebHubTel had a negative experience with Quora, which he reported on the blog. But I'd like to see his answer, the one that got deleted. Maybe he didn't phrase it simply enough, or something.

As for your question above, I have some answers already... some good data is here:

There are lots of pages here that contain graphs that are regularly updated.

Over the last few months, it struck me that the real opportunity for helping, and hence making a difference, lies precisely in the connecting of the disparate groups that don't know about each other or how they could help each other to make a more coherent more unified global movement towards saving the world.

Yes indeed! That's a big part of what we should be doing. I'm hoping you can do some of this "connecting". I'm a bit nerdy and like to spend tons of time thinking about science... there's just too much to do!

Comment Source:Curtis wrote: > But the question remains, what information would be the most useful indicators of the planet's health? How do they interrelate? This would be a great question for a blog post. I'm hoping to lure you into taking some of your questions and putting them on the blog instead of the Forum... you'll get more answers, and generally turn up the excitement level a notch or two. I really like the idea of taking questions from Quora, throwing them on the blog, maybe creating up a page on the wiki for people to write answers, and then giving the Azimuth answer. We've actually got a lot of answers already, here. We're a bit short of people who need to know those answers! I realize that if people write answers to questions, I'll be unable to resist polishing them and making them nice... especially if the answers will be credited to Azimuth. You should take advantage of this weakness of mine. WebHubTel had a negative experience with Quora, which he reported on the blog. But I'd like to see his answer, the one that got deleted. Maybe he didn't phrase it simply enough, or something. As for your question above, I have some answers already... some good data is here: * [GISTEMP](http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/) * [NOAA Current Climate](http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/psd/enso/enso.currclim.html) * [NOAA Current State of the Tropical Pacific](http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/psd/enso/enso.current.html) There are lots of pages here that contain graphs that are regularly updated. > Over the last few months, it struck me that the real opportunity for helping, and hence making a difference, lies precisely in the connecting of the disparate groups that don't know about each other or how they could help each other to make a more coherent more unified global movement towards saving the world. Yes indeed! That's a big part of what we should be doing. I'm hoping you can do some of this "connecting". I'm a bit nerdy and like to spend tons of time thinking about science... there's just too much to do!
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15.
edited May 2011

Now when I am writing an article here on Azimuth I usually announce it in web2.0 usually both twitter, linkedin and FB. Eg I had been reading up on Lattice Boltzmann method and writing, so i sent out on all of the above and then I forward Azimuth RSS feeds to people because that is the way I keep updated on changes on Azimuth so its very easy to share feeds in most readers.

Comment Source:Now when I am writing an article here on Azimuth I usually announce it in web2.0 usually both twitter, linkedin and FB. Eg I had been reading up on [[Lattice Boltzmann method]] and writing, so i sent out on all of the above and then I forward Azimuth RSS feeds to people because that is the way I keep updated on changes on Azimuth so its very easy to share feeds in most readers.
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16.
edited May 2011

...So usually that part just takes minutes because there are client sw which allows me to post to all or selected ones.

Curtis: The dashboard has been in my head since a long time. I like a lot and I've seen the idea in other contexts (telemedicine at my old lab) and Sun did a User Interface of the future (mid 90s) which is similar. right now i am all for

Comment Source:...So usually that part just takes minutes because there are client sw which allows me to post to all or selected ones. Curtis: The dashboard has been in my head since a long time. I like a lot and I've seen the idea in other contexts (telemedicine at my old lab) and Sun did a User Interface of the future (mid 90s) which is similar. right now i am all for