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# Experiments with carbon cycle box model

I started this as I wanted this page as I had it almost done fror the linear model. Next I plan to add nonlinearity, more fluxes and boxes, of which one is fossil fuel

and Sage interact for

Experiments with carbon cycle box model

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1.

Phantastic, you're doing my homework! Alas I haven't yet managed to have look at my copy of Slingerland & Kump. I'm a grandmaster in not doing homework...

Comment Source:Phantastic, you're doing my homework! Alas I haven't yet managed to have look at my copy of Slingerland & Kump. I'm a grandmaster in not doing homework...
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2.
edited October 2011

I think this might be the basis of a good blog article (or two, or three...) on the Azimuth Blog!

If you make lots of nice pictures, or a program that people can easily run online, and explain it, I can polish and expand your explanation and put it on the blog.

Comment Source:<img src = "http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/emoticons/thumbsup.gif" alt = ""/> I think this might be the basis of a good blog article (or two, or three...) on the Azimuth Blog! If you make lots of nice pictures, or a program that people can easily run online, and explain it, I can polish and expand your explanation and put it on the blog.
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3.

Martin: There are other cycles where u might be able to not do the home work :-) the P oceanic cycle which is an exercise 3.3!

John let me work a bit more and then ill start thinking how to blog on it

Comment Source:Martin: There are other cycles where u might be able to not do the home work :-) the P oceanic cycle which is an exercise 3.3! John let me work a bit more and then ill start thinking how to blog on it
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4.
edited October 2011

I added some more to the side just explaining the box model equations. I've also started to to think about how to actually help people build box models. My thinking sofar is at least to have textual input for their equations and iv's and maybe long term modify Sage's graph_editor and use it to input the model. Also ive been thinking how we could get more interactivity; and I actually got processing.js to work inside Sage. Scroll down and move the mouse around in the gray box (pun intended) to see what happens.

Scoll down more to see the graph a way to make a bidirected graph in sage and edit it after

Comment Source:I added some more to the side just explaining the box model equations. I've also started to to think about how to actually help people build box models. My thinking sofar is at least to have textual input for their equations and iv's and maybe long term modify Sage's graph_editor and use it to input the model. Also ive been thinking how we could get more interactivity; and I actually [got processing.js to work inside Sage](http://sagenb.org/home/pub/3445/). Scroll down and move the mouse around in the gray box (pun intended) to see what happens. Scoll down more to see the graph a way to make a bidirected graph in sage and edit it after
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5.

Neat stuff, Staffan! Let me know what I can do to help.

Comment Source:Neat stuff, Staffan! <img src = "http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/emoticons/thumbsup.gif" alt = ""/> Let me know what I can do to help.
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6.

Staffan, it has long been a goal of mine (for almost 20 years!) to produce software to let people create box models (or generally, study the system dynamics of coupled ODEs). But I have never found the time. My initial idea was to create a small domain-specific language for specifying a system of ODEs, akin to Maple syntax. (Actually, my inspiration was OpenFOAM syntax.) I'd then parse the text equations and, preferably, translate them at runtime into code that is compiled just-in-time for speed, coupled to some simple interactive graphing tools. Ultimately, my goal was to allow users to specify their models graphically on top of this underlying system, and to build a clone of STELLA. (Using STELLA was a formative experience for me in high school.) Perhaps some of this could be accomplished in Sage.

Comment Source:Staffan, it has long been a goal of mine (for almost 20 years!) to produce software to let people create box models (or generally, study the system dynamics of coupled ODEs). But I have never found the time. My initial idea was to create a small domain-specific language for specifying a system of ODEs, akin to Maple syntax. (Actually, my inspiration was [OpenFOAM syntax](http://www.openfoam.com/features/creating-solvers.php).) I'd then parse the text equations and, preferably, translate them at runtime into code that is compiled just-in-time for speed, coupled to some simple interactive graphing tools. Ultimately, my goal was to allow users to specify their models graphically on top of this underlying system, and to build a clone of [STELLA](http://www.iseesystems.com/softwares/Education/StellaSoftware.aspx). (Using STELLA was a formative experience for me in high school.) Perhaps some of this could be accomplished in Sage.
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7.

Nathan: So lets hope we can do it now ! Or at least bits and pieces ! I was also peeking at Stella for inspiration first. I'll have a look at OpenFOAM also. Let me do a couple of box models in Sage and then we can start to abstract?

John the graph part was there because one idea was to re-use/program the sage graph_editor - for editing mathematical graphs - and enter box models by using symbols for fluxes/reservoirs with Odum's symbols, but I put that on hold as the graph editor is a bit shaky and I consider the entry of ode's as 2nd priority and actually starting to make more box models more important.

Comment Source:Nathan: So lets hope we can do it now ! Or at least bits and pieces ! I was also peeking at Stella for inspiration first. I'll have a look at OpenFOAM also. Let me do a couple of box models in Sage and then we can start to abstract? John the graph part was there because one idea was to re-use/program the sage graph_editor - for editing mathematical graphs - and enter box models by using symbols for fluxes/reservoirs with Odum's symbols, but I put that on hold as the graph editor is a bit shaky and I consider the entry of ode's as 2nd priority and actually starting to make more box models more important.
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8.

I think the idea of making it easy for idiots like me to create box models is great.

If you make a couple working examples, Staffan, I'll blog about them. And if you can abstract and make a general program for creating box models - one that even I can use - I'll use it in my Network Theory series.

Comment Source:I think the idea of making it easy for idiots like me to create box models is _great_. If you make a couple working examples, Staffan, I'll blog about them. And if you can abstract and make a general program for _creating_ box models - one that even I can use - I'll use it in my Network Theory series.
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9.

I added a one box model of radiocarbon growth and also moved the initial 2box to the right heading. Both of these also has a nonlinear version (for 14C its the adding of the sunspot cycle and for the 2box its fluxes that depend on more reervoir masses). I will use the linear versions as reference/testing now and go on add more models

• 1box: fossil fuel increase
• more boxes

and I will also make a more elaborate Sage interact(), my idea is to start with adding persistence over sessions so you can add models and they can be saved and used later: That is an easy way to let us have more models added over time, and I know how !

So if you have suggestions for box models or features of the Sage interact() app you would like pls ask.

Comment Source:I added a one box model of radiocarbon growth and also moved the initial 2box to the right heading. Both of these also has a nonlinear version (for 14C its the adding of the sunspot cycle and for the 2box its fluxes that depend on more reervoir masses). I will use the linear versions as reference/testing now and go on add more models * 1box: fossil fuel increase * more boxes and I will also make a more elaborate Sage interact(), my idea is to start with adding persistence over sessions so you can add models and they can be saved and used later: That is an easy way to let us have more models added over time, and I know how ! So if you have suggestions for box models or features of the Sage interact() app you would like pls ask.
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10.
edited November 2011

John B: I've decided to blog about the carbon cycle ! Right now I have some draft text I'll put up. I estimate that it'll be 2-3 postings for the carbon cycle

Comment Source:John B: I've decided to blog about the carbon cycle ! Right now I have some draft text I'll put up. I estimate that it'll be 2-3 postings for the carbon cycle
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11.
edited November 2011

I added some text on the 1box carbon section and also intend to add the Ocean to the carbon box models.

Comment Source:I added some text on the 1box carbon section and also intend to add the Ocean to the carbon box models.
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12.

If you want, you could put the draft of the blog on a new wiki page in the blog category (like John B usually does) so azimuth members could read it in advance.

Comment Source:Nice! I'll be looking forward to reading your posts about the carbon cycle. If you want, you could put the draft of the blog on a new wiki page in the blog category (like John B usually does) so azimuth members could read it in advance.
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13.

This is good stuff, Staffan! Sorry I'm so slow to react to notes here... I'm doing too many things.

Is there a way to see box models of yours on the Sage website?

What are you hoping to do in your blog articles? Explain how to write box models in Sage, or explain the concepts behind box models, or explain basics of the carbon cycle, or all three?

Comment Source:This is good stuff, Staffan! Sorry I'm so slow to react to notes here... I'm doing too many things. Is there a way to see box models of yours on the Sage website? What are you hoping to do in your blog articles? Explain how to write box models in Sage, or explain the concepts behind box models, or explain basics of the carbon cycle, or all three?
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14.

I had to drop out to handle some personal stuff so last week was not able to work anything on azimuth. But Ill re-start on this coming monday. John I think its feasible to do it on the Sage site and I told Allan on the other thread there are means to make it more interactive tru some javascript lib's i found .

I'll decide on Monday if i am able publish before Christmas as I and my wife leaves for Argentina early this year Dec 14. Anyway Ill put up whatever I have and then we can decide and work together .

Comment Source:I had to drop out to handle some personal stuff so last week was not able to work anything on azimuth. But Ill re-start on this coming monday. John I think its feasible to do it on the Sage site and I told Allan on the other thread there are means to make it more interactive tru some javascript lib's i found . I'll decide on Monday if i am able publish before Christmas as I and my wife leaves for Argentina early this year Dec 14. Anyway Ill put up whatever I have and then we can decide and work together .
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15.

So I am back and have started to pull this together this upcoming week, but I want to. I also started some pages that will be relevant to next post

Comment Source:So I am back and have started to pull this together this upcoming week, but I want to. I also started some pages that will be relevant to next post